Does anyone know what the thinking is behind chucking out all the filters in CS4 and replacing them with effects? It seems to me that this is just making things more complicated and time-consuming than it need be. With effects you can't see the vectors in Outline mode without expanding them first. It's fine using layer effects in Photoshop but not so good in Illy. Do the Adobe team not realize that we often want basic vectors that are readily editable?
Take crop marks for example; we often need to copy them to align to folds or centres. You can't do that without expanding first, but why make an extra step of a process that is so elementary the old way?
For my part I prefer to have vectors that I can see and select. I am not very keen on stuff that is hidden away. It so often happens that things have to be tweaked manually. This is one of the reasons that I always preferred Illy to Freehand. Freehand had a lot of behind-the-scenes things going on. To my way of thinking, working on the surface is better and more easily controllable.
A possible suggestion might be to have a check box for the instant expanding of effects as soon as they are applied. Any thoughts?

Dunno whether it's all of them. I thought so by the news I've been reading. Don't want to buy a dead duck if CS4 isn't worth switching over to. I work on the principle that "if it ain't bust why mend it?"
And if they've gone and chucked out stuff that was useful I don't think I want to go there, at least not until I've heard pros that outweigh the cons.

In CS4, there is no longer a Filter menu. Object mosaic is under the Object menu (it's not an Effect). I suppose the idea was that what they were removing (the Filter menu) was taking up bandwidth that was unnecessary when a single added keyboard command could get you the same thing.

Well, if we are not talking about different things, I see Mosaic Tiles under Effects, Photoshop Effects, Texture, Mosaic Tiles. In CS4.

Create Object Mosaic, under the Object menu, about half way down the list, right under Create Gradient Mesh. Not in the Effects menu here. Something special about the Swedish version? If you apply it to an image, is it a live effect?

Gary, I don't have a Swedish version, I have the US version from the Design Premium package. I never used localized apps if I am not forced to (like at work where I am also forced to use CS2... soon to be CS3... don't ask, long story).

I see the choice now but create Object Mosaic is greyed out (have no idea what kind of object you need to make it wake up). But the choice IS in where I said too, in the Effects menu. Either go to the Photoshop Effects menu and open Gallery Effects... or go directly to the Effect menu, onto the Photoshop Effects part in the menu and choose Texture, Mosaic Tiles.

Or are we talking about different kinds of Mosaics?

Wade - I don't know nothing about variables and haven't really dug into live color either. I do know though that in FH you could search and replace colors and could for many versions back (you actually stated the name of the color, be it named or the selected one, and searched for that to replace it with another named color, on one object or all objects). And you could also search and replace object parameters (like a certain width of line to change it to another width). Not to forget search and replace text parameters. I am still hoping all those options will appear in Illustrator one day. Not having all that much hope though.

The effects are fine. I don't miss the filter thingies.

Object mosaic is under the Object menu




Thanks, Gary.

Well, if we are not talking about different things, I see Mosaic Tiles
under Effects, Photoshop Effects




Not the same thing, Nini. That's a raster effect. Create>ObjectMosaic is one of those things that seems pretty lame on the surface; and I'd even say it is, if used by itself. But I've found it can be combined with other things (scripts and Convert To Shape, for example) to do things that can't be done any other way, and while I think it could be greatly improved in that direction (to the point of constituting a whole new and powerful feature set the likes of which is not in any of AI's competitive programs), I wouldn't want to loose the function it presently provides.

I suppose the idea was ...(the Filter menu) was taking up bandwidth...




Bandwidth? I'd guess it's just finally getting around to cleaning up some of the scattered redundancy. Effects vs Filters is still a point of confusion for AI newcomers, and understandably so.

I have no problem with getting rid of the Filters menu so long as none of its functionality (detail feature options, etc.) is lost and so long as the expanded results of a corresponding Effect are not inferior to the Filter. (Given the CS3 OffsetPath/OutlineStroke fiasco, I have lost alot of confidence in the care with which things are done.)

But assuming it's done right, live effects are advantageous, and having to click once to expand them is not a big deal--so long as that is done right, too. For example:

Reportedly, Compound Shape Modes (top row in the Pathfinder Palette), which are live effects, now act as literal um....undead "filters" by default. You now use the keyboard modifier to apply them as an Effect. I see that as a positive change, because it makes the features within the Pathfinder Palette consistent.

But within the whole program, that is inconsistent with the Effects menu. The default there is to apply as an Effect, and an extra action is required to expand.

Now, if you were designing a user interface, and you wanted to include constructs called "Live Effects", and you wanted the program to be as intuitive to users as possible, would it not make sense to treat such live effects consistently; and consolidate them as much as possible?

Since Shape Modes are Live Effects that can be expanded, wouldn't it make sense to put them with the other Live Effects? Um...can't, because the Effects menu also contains live effect versions of...Pathfinders(?!), which are for different purposes than those with the same names in the Pathfinders Palette.

Clearly, this is not well-organized, intuitive interface design. But the removal of the Filter menu is probably a baby-step in the right direction.

JET

Nini　forget FH already and stop thinking that way and take a look at live color and you will find it easier then you think to work with color as long as you let it works the way it works and stop looking at the past.

It is very powerful and remarkably easy once you understand it is simple to use. It does the work for you. But like anytyhing new you have to gert use to it. Just like when you stop working on the drwaing board and took up working on a computer.

Once you get use to it you will see how easy life can be. No need to search for colors to replace just replace them that's all there is, it just does not need the feature the feature is obsolete.

It is called progress a better way was developed to do this function.

When I return from Japan I will post a video or you can take a look at the tutorils from Adobe.

You can change the colors in a document that contains a 100 colors in seconds without missing a beat. No need to find anything. UIt is all right there for you to change.

Life just became simpler. Have a great day!

Wade - might be no use to etc. but if you actually WANT to replace a very specific color with another specific color, can live color do that? And how do you replace every 2 point line in a document with a 1 point line universally and automatically by search and replace? Got any tricks for that? There still are features from FH that I miss and that I will keep on fighting for, just like many other FreeHand users will.

Jet,
I went to Illustrator Help and found the object mosaic you were talking about. And yes, that is not the same mosaic I was talking about but another one.

(And why on earth doesn't choosing Illustrator Help take me to the Illustrator Help but to an Adobe webpage where community help is pre-chosen? I have no use for that and have to click yet another link in the righthand column to get to what I originally choose?. Very bad.)

Even learned why I couldn't reach the command (pixelimage placed in AI must be embedded not linked to for it to work).